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 Brigham Young University
Fired Up for Justice: An Interview with Matthew Kulisch
Interviewed by Hugo Salinas
February 2007
Matt Kulisch, 24, became well known one year ago when, as a BYU student, he decided to join the Soulforce Equality Ride demonstration held at his own campus and led a “die-in” event in remembrance of
gay Mormon suicides. Matt, who has since transferred to the University of Utah, is one of four young people with an LDS background who will participate in this year’s ride as it stops at BYU, BYU-Idaho, and some 15 other religious colleges that discriminate against LGBT students.
The Equality Ride will visit BYU on March 21-22 and BYU-Idaho on April 16-17. For more information on these four Riders of LDS background, and to help sponsor their Ride, please visit the pages for Mike Cramer,
Matt Kulisch, Kourt Osborn, and Emil Pohlig at www.soulforce.org/2007riders.
One year ago, as a BYU student, you joined the historic demonstration that the Equality Ride was organizing at BYU and, as a result of your participation, you were placed on probation. Had you planned to play such an active role in that demonstration?
Honestly, no. I didn’t, at least not initially. Several of my roommates and friends had been following the Equality Ride as it was traveling towards BYU, and they had been communicating with the Riders in preparation for their visit. I didn’t decide to get involved until the day the Equality Ride arrived in Provo. But a friend of mine had just lost someone to suicide because he was gay and couldn’t reconcile his feelings with his religious beliefs, and another very close friend had come out to his family the very day the Ride came to BYU—it went pretty badly. I decided to demonstrate for myself, and for them.
One thing I found interesting is that you were not disciplined for being gay, but for refusing to remain silent. Do you think BYU is a healthy environment for gay and lesbian students?
I think you have just identified BYU’s true policy toward their LGBT students: You’re welcome so long as you’re submissive and silent, which is a pretty poor way of following the counsel of LDS church leaders on the subject. Any environment that does not offer LGBT students—or any other minority group, for that matter—a voice to speak their minds and share their concerns is not a healthy environment. BYU is certainly no exception.
How has your life changed since transferring to the University of Utah?
Academically, it hasn’t changed a whole lot. I loved my education at BYU. I love it at University of Utah. I still have to do homework, and I still have trouble waking up for class in the morning. But let me put it this way: the first thing I saw when I walked onto University of Utah’s campus was a huge sign hanging in the window at the Union Building that read, “Hate Free Zone”. That left me smiling all day long. It was pretty nice to see.
Some people feel that by openly confronting institutions, the Equality Riders send the wrong message. How do you respond to that?
Well, if you look at social justice movements of the past, they are always uncompromising. Look at the Civil Rights movement or Gandhi’s movement to free India from British rule. You confront your adversaries with truth. If they respond, you take the opportunity to promote discussion and dialogue. If not, you do not back down. But more important than that, people need to recognize that there is a price for maintaining the status quo. Just two weeks ago, I got a call from a friend at BYU. Someone he had been talking to online—a 24 year old gay student at BYU who was not out and not even comfortable giving my friend his real name—informed him of his plan to commit suicide... by the end of the day. And without his information, we couldn’t do anything to help. Luckily, this person is okay now. But okay is a relative term.
When we are silent and permissive, allowing that kind of fear and oppression to exist without addressing it, there is a cost. It could have been that boy’s life.
This year you’re one of four Riders who come from a Mormon background. What can you tell me about the others?
In addition to myself, my roommates, Emil Pohlig and Mike Cramer, are going on the Ride. I’m excited that all three of us are going; it simply would not be the same without them beside me. And we were all excited to learn of a fourth Utah Rider, called Kourt Osborn, who grew up in Kanab and is transgender. So we are strong and committed together, and all of us are deeply involved in the planning of the BYU stops. We are all supporting each other and the rest of the Riders as much as we can. For example, we are all working on presentations that will be offered to the schools or communities we visit. Other than that, I want Kourt to know, publicly, that I think it’s a real shame he’s straight. Because he’s really really cute.
Perhaps for the first time ever, GLBT Mormons will demonstrate this year at BYU-Idaho (formerly Ricks College). Why was it important to include BYU-Idaho in the itinerary?
Well, the same policies exist at BYU-Idaho just like in Provo. They prohibit, not only behavior that could be construed as “homosexual in nature”, but advocacy too. And their policies are both uncompromisingly vague. To make matters worse, BYU-Idaho is an even more conservative environment seated in an even more closeted community. If things are bad for LGBT students at BYU, I doubt they’re any better at BYU-Idaho.
What can people do to support you and the other Riders?
The short answer is pretty obvious, I guess: Visit the Equality Ride website and find the Utah Riders on the Sponsor pages. But more important than that, watch the Affirmation website. Affirmation has been gracious to us, asking for consistent updates on our activities both in the planning stages and during the Ride itself. We will be posting information about the BYU Stop whenever we have something new and exciting to tell you. At this very moment, Affirmation has news regarding one of our activities at both BYU Stops. Check out the List of Concerns and Grievances. And, if you pray, keep us in your prayers as well.
What is the “List of Concerns and Grievances” and how can people participate in this initiative?
Right. This is perhaps the most important thing you can do to support us. If you went to BYU, or your son or your friend or your mother or your dog went to BYU, take the time to read over our request for concerns and grievances. This is an opportunity for the BYU community to voice their concerns—past and present—about how the BYU environment adversely affects its LGBT members. This list is going straight to the BYU administration during our visit. The more people submit a concern or two, the more good this will do.
What would be your message to gay and lesbian Mormons who feel depressed, lonely, or fearful?
God loves you, unconditionally. And even though your parents, your friends, your school, and your church may not see you or love you for who you are, God does. People will tell you that the Bible and the doctrine condemn you. It’s not true. Read closer. Study harder. Look outside the box you’ve been forced into. The true message of the scriptures and the doctrine are all about wisdom and love, not about judgment and obedience and certainly not about hate.
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